file Skagit hook shot

  • Posts 133

jimmyellenberger created: Skagit hook shot

Try as I may I just cant seem to figure this one out on my own. I need some help please. I am using one of those OPST commando lines on a 12'4" 5wt. For some reason the cast consistently forms a right hand hook while airborne as though the arse end is shoving the forward part of the line out of the way... I have tried slowing down, speeding up, straightening up and about everything else I can think of. Lots of weird stuff happens as a result of all that but the hook remains. I have even tried a heavier running line to perhaps create some drag . The hook persists. My other spey lines are fine. I don't understand. It is truly ugly to watch. Any thoughts? Jimmy <!-- s:? --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_e_confused.gif" alt=":?" title="Confused" /><!-- s:? -->
#1

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  • Posts 24

Castingsport replied: Re: Skagit hook shot

Hi Jimmy,

I'd be kidding both myself and your good self if I commented too much without seeing what your body movement is, however from your statement of the comparative outcomes with other lines, it maybe sourced to your backcast. How much overhang do you use? I see it in shooting head distance casting with tournament casters often when the overhang is too long. You have mentioned that you have increased the speed but if you pause on the backcast with a head/overhang you will get the same result.

John

Don't allow your haul to add bend to your rod
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  • Posts 133

jimmyellenberger replied: Re: Skagit hook shot

Thanks for you thoughts John, I will head down the hill to the river shortly for a practice session and try to learn some more. I am beginning to think the problem might lie with the tips and leaders I am using. That opst head is mighty short at 13ft and it took me a while to stop blowing the anchor with a conventional spey cast. My muscle memory kept tossing back a big D loop. Once I tucked my hands and arms back into the box things improved. Getting that constant acceleration/constant angle thing going was pretty challenging too. I probably only get 30% of the attempted casts anywhere near to whats required. What happens now is the tips refuse to turn over much at all ( the floating tip seems worst) and I am thinking that is whats dragging the head around into that awful hook shape. There is an energy loss somewhere in the system. I don't use any overhang at all and start the casting stroke with a snap T or snap C. Thanks again for your input. Cheers... Jimmy
P.S. I don't know why I am being so stubborn about this line. Its not as if I don't have other systems that are working well. Must be the challenge.
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  • Posts 24

Castingsport replied: Re: Skagit hook shot

Thanks Jimmy, I'll be interested in how you go. With such a short head the loop should form quickly with speed and perform as a forward delivery loop does when generated from a standard overhead cast. What type of tips and heads do you use when the problem exhibits itself, is there any large differences in density?

John

Don't allow your haul to add bend to your rod
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  • Posts 13

decko replied: Re: Skagit hook shot

With Sustained anchor casting it is necessary to maintain constant load throughout the cast, that is - from the sweep though formation of the dloop and into the forward cast is one motion, no conscious stops, no conscious lift when forming the dloop either (sure fire way to 'unload' your cast).
Not that its an absolute but typically overhang is desireable with a short, such as the commando head from opst, how much is up to you.
From what I am reading it sounds like a tip travel issue, your line will, for the most part, travel true to the tip path, if you have a hook in either direction it would suggest that somewhere in your foreward cast you are not going straight.
Tips either sinking or floating not turning over or crashing are typically to do with direction of your cast, or more precisely the target angle, instead of casting at a target or in a flat parallel to a target, aim at a higher point, I had this a lot when I first started skagit casting, I think it might be a carry over habbit from overhead casting with standard weight forward lines that afford you different timing with a flatter trajectory allowance.
Aim higher and your tips will unroll.
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  • Posts 23

Morsie replied: Re: Skagit hook shot

Only a suspicion but it sounds like you may have too much head in the rod at launch, not enough overhang? Very hard to tell without seeing.

Morsie

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  • Posts 133

jimmyellenberger replied: Re: Skagit hook shot

I love this forum for its ability to connect us with helpful people. This is excellent fellas, now I have something to work with. Trying to trouble shoot these double handers can be hard when working in isolation. I was beginning to grow suspicious about the overhang question. My thoughts were: 13' head + 10' tip + 6'leader = Max 29'... Tops. Versus 12'4"rod+3'height above water surface + 15'dloop(est) = 30'4" which would have me blowing the sustained anchor right at the end of the cast, which would explain the energy loss ( that seldom happened with an 11'switch) and subsequent collapsing/crashing front loop. Sounds like I need to come to terms with using a bit of overhang and just dealing with the hinge factor by casting nice and smooooth. I shall give it a try. I also run a slightly overweight switch line on this rod which just flies using a skagit cast so it probably all comes back to that super short head.
The tips are all precisely the same length and I have recently done the same with the leader lengths in order to reduce the variables whilst trouble shooting this cast. I only run 3 tips, fsinkt6, intermediate 50%/50%, and ffloat. Thanks again and I will let you all know how I go. Cheers.... Jimmy
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  • Posts 24

Castingsport replied: Re: Skagit hook shot

Hi Jimmy,

Found this today about the line you have mentioned. They do not quantify the overhang (how much backing is out of the rod tip during the cast) but it looks to be no longer than a metre. It also does not mention the diameter of the backing vs the diameter of the end of the fly line at the rod end but the casts would indicate a fair differential. You've always got to be a bit careful about estimating distances cast with the camera behind the caster but nevertheless, the no pause, short overhang and running line or backing set up used in the video generates a good fast and full turnover.

Hope it is of assistance,

John

Don't allow your haul to add bend to your rod
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  • Posts 24

Castingsport replied: Re: Skagit hook shot

Sorry Jimmy, forgot to add the video address referred to in my previous post. On the second view the overhang may be less than a metre.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M24h0SHBSCg

John

Don't allow your haul to add bend to your rod
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  • Posts 13

decko replied: Re: Skagit hook shot

If you look them up on FB you will see a vid at one of the fly fishing festivals with Trevor Covich from OPST casting one of the commando heads on a 13' 7wt, it can be done easily, its 'simply' a matter of keeping in the box and not over powering the cast, these lines cast very easily if you keep your casting stroke compact which means less effort for you ultimately.
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