Conserve & Manage Crown land leases and access

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  • #879958

    micmac3701
    Participant

    It’s got a fair bit of media coverage of late but it does have implications for anglers.

    https://vfa.vic.gov.au/recreational-fishing/targetonemillion2/crownland/removing-the-prohibition-on-camping-on-licenced-river-frontages

    It looks to me that you would still need permission to cross private (or leased) land to access river frontages, that’s unchanged.

    The big difference is that camping is now permitted on leased crown land river frontages.

    Personally I’m not a fan of the idea. There are plenty of camping grounds (free and commercial) with facilities to manage camping and people fail to keep them clean so why “trash” more of our waterways?

    Another point did strike me as I was scanning through.

    “It is expected that licensees would have public liability insurance since the public is permitted to access licensed Crown land river frontages now for various recreational activities (e.g. fishing, picnicking). The Bill does not alter that fact.”

    I wonder how many landowners are aware of this liability.

    Don’t get me wrong, I’m all for improved access. Love the clearly signposted and well managed system they have in NZ. I just don’t think streamside camping confers this and suspect landowner pushback may well result in greater restrictions to access.

     

    #879974

    ANDREW
    Participant

    Considering that a lot of licencees were alowing their mates to camp on river  frontage for years and not allowing anyone else it seems like positive outcome to me.

    Hey, may even help keeping cows from destroying river habitats if there is more public scrutiny.

     

    #879988

    micmac3701
    Participant

    Camping has always been permitted on crown river frontage, but prohibited on leased (ie grazing lease or riparian management) crown frontage.

    Not sure if the issue of public liability has been addressed with mates camped by the river. Or the minimum 20 metres from a watercourse.

    1000 of these crown frontage leases are riparian management (excluding stock, or controlling access) and the great majority of landowners are conscientious stewards of the assets in their care.

    The provision of pedestrian access along crown frontage is interesting.

        (2)     A licence for the occupation and use of a water frontage granted before the commencement of the <b>Land (Amendment) Act 1983 </b>shall, from the commencement of that Act, be subject to the condition that the licensee shall erect and maintain a suitable means of pedestrian access through any fence on or around the water frontage except any fence between the frontage and adjoining private land and where there is any breach of this condition the licence may be cancelled forthwith. 

    Pretty sure that requirement is not being observed or enforced.

    #879998

    woody-wood
    Participant

    90% of farmers are doing the right thing.

    Remember that they gain their livelihood from the land they own and lease. In most cases they are proactive in maintaining the fencing between their land and the crown reserve.

    As in all facets of becoming environmentally aware, we as Australians are becoming educated in how best to look after streams and rivers. This includes keeping stock out of waterways, keeping instream habitat, and stream bed structure. This protects waterways and safeguards abutting farm land. Farmers are the first line in protecting the resource.

    What was usual practice 50 years ago has changed over time and with education to best practices.

    The new regulation change allowing camping on crown reserves anywhere is not a progressive step. As Micmac stated above, this will increase stream side rubbish, abandoned camp fires and the dreaded piles of excrement lying about.

    I think it would have been better to work with land holders to ensure public land is not fenced off and sign posted as private. To provide marked access points and styles.

    I don’t think I would be to happy if three blokes started camping on the easement in the back yard because all of a sudden they are allowed to without gaining my permission.

    Disclaimer: I don’t own a farm but I do live in a rural region.

    #880089

    Charles Clayton
    Participant

    I would imagine there would be a move by landholders to  ban camping at a local Government level by local farmers as this issue heats up,  there would also be a move to use biosecurity arrangements as an excuse to ban access. I really envy Victoria with their easy access to the water south of the border but there is a real risk in pushing things too far, you must expect some push back by the locals.

    #886766

    david-lam
    Participant

    The big difference is that camping is now permitted on leased crown land river frontages.

    No, leased land will still give the farmer access denial – not only for camping but also for plain foot access. This is about licences not leases on crown land river frontage.

    #886767

    david-lam
    Participant

    Considering that a lot of licencees were alowing their mates to camp on river  frontage for years and not allowing anyone else it seems like positive outcome to me.

    Let’s say you lease a few acres down the coast. You look after it. Keep it fenced, keep the grass down. You let mates camp on it. Should you have to let anyone else camp on it?

    #886772

    micmac3701
    Participant

    No, leased land will still give the farmer access denial – not only for camping but also for plain foot access. This is about licences not leases on crown land river frontage.

    Sorry but my understanding is that leases of crown land river frontage do not extinguish public access rights they simply give landholders grazing rights on crown land. We are talking about crown land leases here, not any other form of lease.

    #886774

    david-lam
    Participant

    No, leased land will still give the farmer access denial – not only for camping but also for plain foot access. This is about licences not leases on crown land river frontage.

    Sorry but my understanding is that leases of crown land river frontage do not extinguish public access rights they simply give landholders grazing rights on crown land. We are talking about crown land leases here, not any other form of lease.

    That’s a licence ( where foot access must be allowed but until now not camping). Leases will continue to carry access denial rights.

    #886776

    ANDREW
    Participant

    I think you specutating a bit David, under current law that is the case but it is just about to change.

    Read this and let me know what you think.

    https://vfa.vic.gov.au/recreational-fishing/targetonemillion2/crownland/removing-the-prohibition-on-camping-on-licenced-river-frontages

    #886779

    david-lam
    Participant

    Note the following exception (doesn’t apply to LEASED land. This is from the VFA website.

     
    <h3>What land will the regulations apply to?</h3>

    • The regulations will apply to what is referred to in the regulations as ‘regulated land’.
    • ‘Regulated land’ is used to refer to essentially all Crown land within 200 metres of the bank of a watercourse, except if the Crown land is:
      • leased or under a residence area right
      • vested in trustees or in a municipal council
      • under the control of a public authority (e.g. a water authority), other than the Secretary [to the Department of Environment, Land, Water or Planning] or Par
    #886785

    david-lam
    Participant

    If these regulations go through without change, we will see campers of unlimited number able to camp for 28 days with their guns and dogs, in licensed farm paddocks with calving stock, taking up to 0.5 m3 of firewood per person per day, and supposedly carrying out all rubbish, glass etc, and burying all traces of human waste. (Yeah right, this with no policing or traceability). Oh, this can be within any distance over 100 m if a farmer’s family house and kids/wife/husband/dogs.

    if you would like to go to your favourite streams that have grazing licences on river frontage and find an increased risk of large numbers of campers with guns and dogs camped where they can have been for 4 weeks, and the environmental damage that inevitably goes with that, and stressed farmers who may be less likely to grant any fisher access (where they have the option – through truly private land), noting that the camping changes will offer zero additional fishing access, then cheer these changes.

    if you think some things might be reined in, like a buffer distance from houses of 300 or 500 m (not 100 m), and limits of 7 days not 28 days, and maybe QR code style identification if campers to be able to trace wrongdoers, then the regs can still be altered. (The law has passed so too late for that). If you think like me that such reining in might enhance your future fishing experience the you have til next Monday through Engage Victoria (google that plus ‘camping on waterfront licences land’ or similar). You can read the regs and do a prompted survey or make a from scratch submission.

    The way I see it, helping the farmers will be helping the fishing environment, and enhancing fisher relations with those farmers.

    #886786

    david-lam
    Participant

    I think you specutating a bit David, under current law that is the case but it is just about to change.

    Read this and let me know what you think.

    https://vfa.vic.gov.au/recreational-fishing/targetonemillion2/crownland/removing-the-prohibition-on-camping-on-licenced-river-frontages

    Just to clear up one thing. This change allows camping on licences. There is already foot access to such areas. There is zero additional access to be able to fish water.

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